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I would think that the publicity of the case would be bad for the Republican party going into the next election, especially if the Republican senators refuse to convict. There is after all a reason why Nixon chose to resign instead of dragging it out and it wasn't for his sake.

No, no, no, no. It's exactly the opposite b/c the only thing the crooks learned from Watergate is how to avoid paying the price for one's crimes.

1. never back down - NEVER
2. own the media

It's impossible to compare the climate now to the climate during Watergate. Today there wouldn't be publicity, there would be spin and it would all benefit Dear Leader and his crime syndicate. And he wouldn't resign no matter what. The GOP would stick to him like glue, party over country traitors that they are (some Dems would probably also come to his side) and in the end, Congress would get nowhere and it would be another loss for good and a huge, set-in-stone win for evil. (disclaimer: I'm usually wrong about everything)

The more I think about it - and I'm not wrong about this - the candidates for pres MUST come out in opposition to what BushCo has been doing and vow to undo it all on their first day in office. Dodd is making vague noises along those lines. Nobody else is and that's what I find the most disturbing. I don't want these powers in anybody's hands.

Robin - I'm somewhat in the same boat. My biggest concern, by far, is "the will of the Democrats will be so feeble". It has been, it is today, it will be tomorrow. And it appears there is nothing the American people can do to chuck them up. They are what they are, which is, needing to be replaced by bold liberals and progressives that will actually do the people's work.

Having said that, if we had Democrats that had some gumption, we'd have already started impeachment proceedings.

eRobin, I'm sorry. I'm not mad, I was exasperated-to-well-maybe-a-little mad, but as a friend.

Clearly you support the notion that there are impeachable offenses, and that they need to be aired. We part ways only on how far to try to take that -- but that's a significant disagreement.

You join digby, I think, in an overly sophisticated analysis -- one that counsels a kind of activism that would not engage me, I guess: sure, talk about impeachable offenses, but do nothing to test the issue because we might lose. That's not a vision I think many people can get behind -- at least for me, step A implies step B: if you say stuff is impeachable, then you try to impeach.

I'm trying not to be naive about this, but there's an element of prematurely throwing in the towel about your position that I don't think we can afford. As I tried to lay out in a comment during our discussion of the Moyers show on impeachment, I think "winning" and "losing" are open to redefinition. To me, a big win is impeachment, a huge win is conviction -- and a win is even just a substantial majority of Democrats voting for impeachment. A loss is failing to impeach with a majority of Democrats also opposed.

And a huge loss is not even trying. In my view, the Constitution needs "We the People" to actively defend it and demand of our representatives that they do so as well. We may lose, but I think we must try to have the impeachment option of the Constitution actually carried out. Otherwise we risk that part of the Constitution (and others) becoming a dead letter, interesting to historians but of no practical significance any more.

You don't, and you're not the only one. That doesn't mean we're not friends, it just means we disagree.

I'm thinking about organizing something along the lines of what Thomas did in Takoma Park

that would be great, and thanks for just considering it, I know you have a lot of very important issues on your plate already.

I find I'm getting a little too zealous about this lately, too impatient with people I shouldn't be who are 90% on my side. I'm sorry about that.

Hey, Thomas: No apology necessary! I never thought you were really angry - frustrated, sure. And we're all frustrated with this lawless administration. I wanted to be clear that I want them out of power and publicly rebuked so that coming regimes don't go down the same unconstitutional path. We only disagree on how best to do that.

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