I was sure we wouldn't have this debate so I'm already wrong!
9:05: Will our kids ever be as safe as we were? Because you know, WWII and the Cold War were good times.
Kerry mentions the COPS program. Bill Keller sends email to all his reporters to remind them not to make mistake COPS for "cops" - again.
9:08 - Bush plays the Nuisance Card.
What's wrong with BushCo tonight? "I don't think I ever said that I'm not worried about Osama bin Laden. That must be one of those "ex-ag-er-a-tions."
Q: What's up with the flu vaccine shortage?
Bush - I'm not a doctor, but what the hell? If you're young and healthy, don't get a flu shot. And don't sue me - we have a problem with that here in the USA. Problem solved.
Kerry - Flu??? Why are we talking about the flu? Let's talk stats about who doesn't have health insurance.
9:13 - This just in from the Kerry campaign:
BUSH: "And [Osama Bin Laden is] just – he’s a person who has now been marginalized. His network is -- his host government has been destroyed. He’s the ultimate parasite who found weakness, exploited it, and met his match…So I don’t know where he is. Nor -- you know, I just don’t spend that much time on him really, to be honest with you. I…I truly am not that concerned about him."[Bush Remarks, 3/13/02]
Q: to Kerry - How are you going to pay for all your pie in the sky plans?
Kerry is talking finances, which answers the quetsion. You can see the wheels turning in BushCo's head - look bland...look bland...look bland....
9:18 - BushCo - "I send my budget man up to Congress."
Q: to BushCo - What do you say to victims of outsourcing?
BushCo says here's some "trade adjustment assistance money."
9:21 - Kerry calls foul on BushCo shifting topics from jobs to education and we get the first jawshift of the night.
Q - to Kerry - Schieffer says it isn't BushCo's fault that jobs are being lost.
Kerry says he'll make sure American workers are not subsidizing the loss of their own jobs. That's a good answer. I don't know what Kerry's talking about beyond that though. China, Boeing, Airbus ...
BushCo - I cut your taxes American workers! (He's ignoring the question which is why don't Americans have jobs to earn that money?)
9:26 - BushCo addresses Kerry directly and breaks all the rules. Where's Schieffer?
Q - to BushCo - Is homosexuality a choice? Stupidest question yet and that includes Ifill's brainteaser from the VP debate.
Q - to Kerry - What about those bishops who hate you?
Kerry's knocking this one out of the park by reminding people that the Bible talked about more than just killing innocents.
BushCo - acting like he doesn't want to make abortion unconstitutional. Playing the "partial birth abortion" card. Adoption is a "great alternative to abortion." All of us ought to be involved in programs that provide an alternative to abortion. Wow - sounds like communism to me.
Q - to BushCo - Why are healthcare costs so high?
BushCo says that if we do his healthcare savings account scam, we'll be involved in the decision making process of our care. We need to "introduce high techonology into healthcare." And he wants the FDA to do an even worse job of screening drugs than it already does.
Kerry - another homerun as he points out the re-importation issue and the ban on bargaining for lower prices in the Medicare bill.
Q - to Kerry - How are you going to pay for that healthcare plan you're always on about?
9:40 - Kerry - if you don't want my plan, you're stupid. (He's not even coming close to answering the question.)
BushCo makes a joke about how the media isn't to be trusted. Here's some media for you, you jackass.
Then he goes on to scare people about rationing and government control of our healthcare. We're the envy of the world!!!
Of course we're meeting our obligation to our veterans. Mick told us all about the "of course."
Q - to BushCo - How are you going to pay for those idiotic private savings accounts that are supposed to replace Social Security?
BushCo - Social Security is in trouble! Trillions! Trillions! I'm going to pay attention to this in my second term. The first term, not so much.
Kerry - won't privatize it, won't cut benefits
Q - to Kerry - Al "get your variable rate mortgages now, before I raise the rates" Greenspan said that the world will end if SocSec benefits aren't cut and the elderly are allowed to live past 75. What do you say to that?
Kerry and BushCo - Blah blah blah
This debate is boring. Kerry sounds whiny. BushCo is lying at will but apparently his meds are right tonight so he looks fine. I'm not sure Kerry has been able to get through BushCo's fog of tax-relief lies.
Q - to BushCo - What's up with all those illegal aliens trying to get our services for free? "How do you see the issue?" (what does that mean?)
BushCo is picking up steam - talking faster, getting a ryhthm.
It's 9:57. I can't express my frustration and disappointment that there hasn't been an energy question yet.
Q - to Kerry - Should we raise the minimum raise?
Kerry - Mais oui! It would give us "more consumption ability in America." And consumption ability is important - almost as much as being able to buy stuff.
BushCo - Looks confused so he races to NCLB, which is safe, divisive ground.
Q - to BushCo - Roe v. Wade - good or bad? Would you appoint judges to overturn it?
BushCo - who me? Where did you ever get that idea?
Kerry - I like the Constitution. I won't appoint any judge that would overturn the 1st or 5th amendment.
BushCo - Kerry has a litmus test! And he's a liberal from Massachusettes.
Kerry - People, he's lying to you - can't you see that? 500,000 kids lost afterschool programs because of his tax cuts.
Q - to Kerry - Will there be a draft? If not, what are you going to do about the backdoor draft that currently exists.
Kerry - No draft! Different deployments. And BushCo's foreign policy is the reason for all this.
BushCo - We must win in Vietnam. I will not be the first president to lose a war.
Troops love me. And I can't understand why Kerry is suggesting that those brave men and women don't want to die for me. It's an honor.
I won't let other countries decide our foreign policy. I will be resolute.
Kerry - Snap! I never said that. I said, be honest and people will respect you.
BushCo - He didn't vote for Daddy's war and that sucked because it was an awesome war.
Q - to BushCo - What about the assault weapons ban - don't guns kill people? Schieffer thinks that this is more important than America's energy policy.
BushCo - the NRA gives me lots of money.
Kerry - this is a good chance to tell a story where I can be a policeman. Policemen are brave.
10:12 BushCo - the blink and look of utter confusion after Kerry's answer was priceless. He just can't keep up with streaming reality.
Q - to Kerry - What about affirmative action? That's more important than energy policy too.
Kerry - racism is bad. BushCo hasn't met with the Black Caucas? really? BushCo says he did at the White House. Boy, if Kerry is wrong on that he'll look bad. UPDATE: Looks like BushCo did meet with the CBC in January 2001. And as recently as 2004 to talk about how we deposed Aristede and left Haiti to suffer without a government. So Kerry was way off base on that. I wonder why he said it.
BushCo - his voice is getting softer and softer and it's effective. (He's saying that a rising tide lifts all boats, even the ones with black captains.)
Q - to BushCo - Dear Leader, how does your enormous love of the Baby Jesus show up in your policy decisions?
BushCo - I do love the Baby Jesus, Bob. But I think that everyone should be free to believe what they want - as long as they believe in God - that should be in the Constitution somewhere. I like prayer too. I can feel the prayers of the country for me. We've unleashed the Armies of Compassion and God wants everybody to be free. Freedom is a gift from the Almighty. I'm nearing orgasm as I tell you that that Freedom is on the March, terrible swift sword!
Kerry - I can mention more obscure religions than you, for instance Native Americans have blessed me. We have a lot more loving of our neighbor to do. (He's saying that we need to work on economic justice but not in those words.)
Q - to Kerry - Everybody loved everybody after 9/11. What happened?
Kerry - Let me ingratiate myself to whoever is still listening by saying that BushCo wasn't a douche in the immediate aftermath of 9/11. Now let me say that he's been a douche every day since. Congress is a hotbed of partisanship! Can't we all get along? Second mention of John McCain for Kerry. (he said no, John, give it a rest - you're hurting Edwards' feelings) Third mention of McCain!
BushCo - I'm so disappointed by the partisan divide in D.C. Those stupid dork Dems helped out with NCLB and now they hate bending over for us. What happened? It's all those lobbyists. So much money! Kerry has to stop mentioning John McCain - he's my boyfriend.
Q - I want to end the debate with the most inane question of the campaign year. I want people to remember me for moderating a debate on domestic issues without a single energy question. I hope that this tape is one day played in journalism classes and the professor can hush the room of eager learners as I ask, "Women are great. I like women. You like women. It's espeicially good to say we like strong women because even though that's incredibly patronizing, for some reason people like to hear it. So - how about those strong women in your lives? Share."
BushCo loves his Waura. She's more eloquent than he is. He can't tell us how much he loves his girls. His mom is a bitch on wheels.
Kerry married money and that's funny! BushCo hates hates hates it that Kerry got a big laugh. Big laughs are the province of Dear Leader, peasants.
Off to vote in online polls. Kerry will need the help.
The 2nd one gave them wings. They think he's indestructible now. (Glad you're back.)
Posted by: Mick | October 13, 2004 at 09:05 PM
Yeah. That was stupid. It's one of the few numbskull remarks he's made that was widely reported in the mainstream press. Most people have actually heard it.
Posted by: Mick | October 13, 2004 at 09:16 PM
I can't believe they sent him out there.
Posted by: eRobin | October 13, 2004 at 09:17 PM
He's speaking directly to Kerry--RULE VIOLATION!
Posted by: Mick | October 13, 2004 at 09:26 PM
'I sure HOPE it's not the Admin'? Quick, somebody, explain it to him.
Posted by: Mick | October 13, 2004 at 09:35 PM
Karl's new mantra: 'I came to Washington to solve problems.' 4 times so far.
Posted by: Mick | October 13, 2004 at 09:38 PM
The flub about newspapers wasn't a flub--another code.
Posted by: Mick | October 13, 2004 at 09:43 PM
The Lewin Group is a medical consulting firm in Falls Church VA (Jerry Falwell country). There's nothing on their website about Kerry or his plan.
Posted by: Mick | October 13, 2004 at 09:51 PM
Don't you think BushCo is looking "good" though?
Schieffer is useless.
I missed that mantra - you're good at hearing those. That one worked well for him in 2000 though so they're hauling it out again.
Posted by: eRobin | October 13, 2004 at 09:55 PM
I'm still on the rsdio. He sounds better.
Posted by: Mick | October 13, 2004 at 09:56 PM
What flub about newspapers??
Posted by: eRobin | October 13, 2004 at 10:00 PM
Is Karl under the impression that Junior is credible on education?
Posted by: Mick | October 13, 2004 at 10:02 PM
He does throw the bull about NLCB well though - it's his best-rehearsed issue after all.
Posted by: eRobin | October 13, 2004 at 10:05 PM
Are we actually going to have four whole debates without a single energy question?
Posted by: Mick | October 13, 2004 at 10:06 PM
Yeah, we definitely need 'back-gowned tests'.
Posted by: Mick | October 13, 2004 at 10:09 PM
LOL! That last set of comments was funny.
Posted by: Mick | October 13, 2004 at 10:12 PM
Watch out for the "armies of compassion"!
Posted by: Kyle | October 13, 2004 at 11:49 PM
Yes - they are the ones that enforce the new rule that we should all be involved with programs that provide alternatives to abortion. We could teach real sex ed, I suppose, which would eliminate the need for it.
Posted by: eRobin | October 14, 2004 at 12:23 AM
Great job at live metablogging. You're way more fun than the real debate.
Posted by: shari | October 14, 2004 at 02:50 AM
"Kerry - another homerun as he points out the re-importation issue and the ban on bargaining for lower prices in the Medicare bill."
Fact check says this is cock and bull--at least the lower prices in the Medicare bill. While Bush's prescription drug bill does ban bargaining for lower prices, everyone seems to ignore that seniors will be better off when the new law takes effect in 2006:
"Indeed, most seniors stand to gain a good deal financially from the measure. According to the nonpartisan Kaiser Family Foundation, the average drug bill for seniors is expected to be $3,160 in the year 2006, when the new drug benefit will go into effect. The new benefit will pay more than half of that, and even after deducting an estimated $35 per month in premiums to purchase the coverage, seniors with that average drug bill will be $1,080 ahead.
"For those with very large drug bills the new benefit provides catastrophic coverage that pays 95% of all drug costs above $5,100. To see exactly how much the measure would be worth to a beneficiary with any given drug bill, the Kaiser Family Foundation has provided a nifty calculator here .
"For low-income seniors the new measure is even more generous. Lower premiums, deductibles and co-pays apply for those with few assets and income below 150% of the official poverty level (or currently $18,180 for a married couple). For those with few assets and income below 135% of poverty (or currently $16,362 for a married couple) there will be no premiums or deductibles, and co-payments will be $2 for each generic prescription and $5 for brand-name drugs."
It goes on to say:
"To be sure, the bill has been criticized by many as not being generous enough, and on other counts. For those with roughly $800 or less in drug costs the benefit won’t equal the costs of premiums, deductibles and co-payments, though seniors will still have the comfort of being protected should their drug costs unexpectedly rise. And an unknown number of low-income persons who now get prescription drug benefits through the state-federal Medicaid program may end up paying more when they are shifted to the new Medicare benefit."
So, I wouldn't call that comment a homerun. Just more political canoodling.
Medical drugs *should* be cheaper though--especially pot.
Posted by: wyatt | October 14, 2004 at 02:15 PM
Well, he said that the bill bans the US from bargaining for lower prices and it does. That's a disgrace and Kerry's calling it one is a homerun. I can't find the stuff you quote on factcheck.org.
Posted by: eRobin | October 14, 2004 at 04:47 PM
"Q - to BushCo - Is homosexuality a choice? Stupidest question yet and that includes Ifill's brainteaser from the VP debate."
Agreed--I balked when I heard this one. To be fair, though, you might mention that Kerry dropped a low blow by basing his response on Cheney's daughter (surprised he didn't mention how butch she is).
Posted by: wyatt | October 14, 2004 at 04:50 PM
Sorry, thought I posted it. Here it is. Still, while the pharmacy bill is wrong (AFIAK), it's a somewhat moot issue in terms of medicare, as bush does a plan to take care of the expense. I still think it screws the rest of us young'ns, as I think we all would like a cheaper pharmacy bill, god damn it.
Posted by: wyatt | October 14, 2004 at 05:26 PM
I cringed when I heard it, but the fact is that we are only going to get equal rights for gays when people understand completely that there are gay people everywhere and they aren't a threat to any of our values or pocketbooks. Kerry bringing up Cheney is fair game (like his Vietnam record is supposed to be fair game) since she's out already and high profile on the GOP side. They've made the Hate Amendment an issue, not the Dems. For anyone to be outraged about it - especially Lynne and Dick - rings hollow because I didn't hear this hue and cry when the guy running against Obama called her a sinner. Where was mommy Lynne then telling us who's a 'bad man"? If anything, it's unseemly for the Cheney's to use their daughter, yet again, to make political book. She's here. She's queer. They gotta get used to it.
What's the name of that guy running against Obama - Alan ??? I can't get it. Not Colmes, not Greenspan, not King ...Keyes! That one.
Posted by: eRobin | October 14, 2004 at 05:27 PM
Yahoo covers the lesbian comment. Had to follow-up because of the remarkable timing of the article (some 45 minutes after my comment!)
Posted by: wyatt | October 14, 2004 at 05:32 PM
It's not the fact that she's out, or even that it outraged the Dick. It's that it was a cheap shot that had little to do with the question (stupid as it may have been), and it just seemed like it was thrown in there to confuse the right-right-right-wing republicans that view homosexuality as evil come election day.
Let me make one thing clear, though: people are never going to realize that gays don't attack their values mostly because they DO attack certain people's values (pocketbook, I can't say, but I doubt it). Many people view homosexuality as a flat-out sin, and many MORE people value the institution of marriage as a sacred bond between a man and a woman.
The problem, IMO, is that we let marriage become a state issue to begin with. While it isn't entirely religious, it's still nothing more than a belief until the government steps in and makes it a legally binding contract with tax benefits.
While I both expect and welcome the prospect of gay marriages, my (not huge) concern is the possible abuse for immigration and/or tax benefits. Somehow I would think that there would be more of this if the contract wasn't required to be cross-gendered.
Posted by: wyatt | October 14, 2004 at 05:49 PM
The problem, IMO, is that we let marriage become a state issue to begin with. While it isn't entirely religious, it's still nothing more than a belief until the government steps in and makes it a legally binding contract with tax benefits.
Agreed. Abolish "marriage" and make everyone sign a contract of civil union for the state to recognize for legal purposes. They can get married in any church they want to after that. It's the way the system works now anyway.
The problem has a lot to do with financial benefits that are going to be accorded to married same-sex couples if their marriages are recognized and the groups that don't want to pay them. The people who claim homosexual marriage offends their delicate value system are just willing pawns.
And as to that, homosexuality offends people's values in exactly the same way that miscegination offends people's values. Which is to say it isn't a value issue at all but one of taste, cultural indoctrination and, thanks to hate/fear mongers, politics.
Posted by: eRobin | October 14, 2004 at 07:59 PM