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Lack of principle is the problem IMO. People just go along with what they've heard without checking against their principles.

The invasion of Iraq was criminal. The occupation remains criminal. So why do so-called progressives continue to support the worst crime humanity has to offer - a war of aggression? They ignore principle and just do what they've heard others say. People they trust but who don't really share their principles.

And I could give other examples.

And I could give other examples.

Very funny. Please don't ;)

I've been trying to post something along these lines for a couple of days, but can't seem to get it together.

Back during the 2000 Bush/Cheney campaign, I recall reading that the campaign made it crystal-clear to the press that if they wanted access to the candidate, they must give favorable coverage.

*Favorable coverage* ended up slandering a decent man, saddling the country with a bumbling idiot, plunging the country into a criminal war & occupation, and generally dragging the whole country into the gutter.

With very few exceptions, the entire press and media population of this country is guilty of collusion.

It cracks me up that liberals think the NYT et al is somehow "right wing media" now. Good f'n grief. You guys make me laugh myself silly.

I mean, if you weren't seriously out to turn us into France (or Cuba), that is.

Low hanging fruit.

You would think that the UNwould have supported action against Saddam. Mutiple Security Council resolutions.

Oops, I forgot: all that oil-for-food graft and corruption.

The UN is NOT corrupt! It's a loving, kind, honest organization of wonderful loving monarchs and divine presidents who do nothing but good for the world and spread love and peace through military non-intervention and, when they can, man/child love.

You're just a mean, evil fascist Bagley if you don't love the UN! If only we could just strive to be more like them.........

What resolutions? Saddam was in compliance with them all. Saddam told the truth about WMDs. Remember? He destroyed them all around 1999 exactly as per the ceasefire agreement that the US never honoured. Saddam was the truth teller and America was the liar. Saddam was the one who acted with honour and decency and America was the rogue state. Saddam was the man of peace, America was bent on war.

You two seem to have it backwards for some reason. Facts always seem more flexible than ideology....

"The "real reason" for this war, which was never stated, was that after 9/11 America needed to hit someone in the Arab-Muslim world."

Can we parse the definition of the word "need"? We "needed" to hit someone the way, say, people in hell "need" ice water, or people in Iraq "need" to live.

That Tom.

Hey Kathy :) From everything I've read of Friedman's, I can only conclude that he has no problem throwing lives on the fire to get his ideas put in place. When he writes that we needed to start a war in the Middle East, he meant it. And if you pointed out to him that people would need to die for that to happen, he'd tell you that's the price they'll have to pay.

David, exactly how deep in denial do you live? The UN declared him in violation 17 times, I believe. It's not whether he had WMD, it was whether he cooperated in good faith. He did not.

Let's put it this way. A convicted criminal on parole has a warrant out to search his premises. The cops show up with the warrant. He won't let them in. After repeated attempt so search, they finally just enter and arrest the guy. There are no weapons found, but do you think the guy doesn't get charged? Oh yeah, he does. You should maybe take a law class or something.

What violation John?

What do you pretend he did?

He was told to destroy the weapons. He destroyed them. He let the inspectors in. The inspectors said he had no weapons.

Your brain can't handle the truth can it?

Your analogy to the arrest warrant just shows how out of touch with reality you are. You think the UN is a policeman. LOL. You think Saddam was "convicted". You think there was a "warrant". Or powers of arrest. You're a useful idiot.

You simply cannot handle the truth: Saddam was the good guy, America was the criminal.

A mass murderer was "the good guy"? You're mentally disturbed. Good luck with that. Please don't reproduce.

What violation? What did Saddam do in your fantasy world John? Or should I take your attempt to change the topic as a retraction?

I feel like I'm speaking with someone who believes the moon landing never happened.

So you've given up.

I can't argue with your delusions.

Besides, I just joined Grover Norquist's Americans for Tax Reform, so I have more interesting things on my mind, thanks to Robin's constant promotion of the group.

Thanks Robin! ;-)

You've already demonstrated your willingness to argue. Your silence indicates you have nothing to argue with. If you can't defend your opinion it's reasonable to conclude your opinion is wrong.

Unfortunately because you chose to bullshit instead of admit you can't defend your opinion, any time in the future when you say anything I'll have to wonder if it's just more bullshit.

Sorry, I'm not going to waste energy with someone who thinks "Saddam was the good guy". Sorry, I don't support mass murderers over someone who has liberated 50 million people. If you'd like, we'll buy you a one way ticket to Iraq and you can hang with Saddam in the Green Zone.

Well you already are "wasting energy" John. You can't even get that fact right!

If you can't defend your opinion then it's reasonable to conclude you're opinion is wrong. What you're really demonstrating here is that you don't have the honesty to admit when you have no rational basis for the opinion you hold.

I don't mind arguing with people who have misconceptions, but arguing with people who are deluded and living on another realm is useless. When Iraqis put Saddam to death for all his murders, I'm sure you'll send flowers. Good luck with that love affair.

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