Debate LiveBlogging

DFA is sponsoring this debate.  I run a DFA group.   We should sponsor a debate.  Or better yet, Philly for Change should.  That would get Casey to Philly.  I think Philly for Change is supporting Casey, but I'm not sure.

The head of the Butler County Democrats for Change, Itzi Metli,  is making a case for a big tent and unity as we take on BushCo in November.   Uh oh - he's asking for a pledge:  "After the May 16th primary, we all come together and support our nominee, whoever that candidate may be against Rick Santorum, ...  the worst of the worst ... " 

Next: Steve Porter, a candidate for Congress in the 3rd.  Maybe he'll pass out the loyalty oaths.

Update:  From Porter, "I hope that whatever happens after this primary we do what Democrats have found it difficult to do and what we must find it imperative to do ... "    It's the old, "We need a Dem Congress to make BushCo pay" argument. 

Next: Lou Hancherick,  Organizer for the North Hills Democracy for America.  Turn off your cellphones, people!  No cameras either.   And no applause.  But then he says "please welcome Alan Sandals" after his introduction of him, thereby throwing the room into confused applause.   Applause for Casey as well.   

Opening remarks

Sandals: It's North Hills DFA that organized this debate.  I've been fighting for pensions and neglected and abused children.  I fight for my clients as hard as I possibly can.  BushCo over the last five years has been a disaster.  We need to win in November but we aren't going to win with a household name or by talking about problems but not solutions.  We're going to win by offering solutions, common sense, talking to voters and something I missed. 

Casey: Thanks North Hills DFA and Slippery Rock.  I appreciate the opportunity to be here with Sandals and Penacchio.  We'll disagree on some issues but we can all agree we need a new senator from PA.  Grow economy, reduce deficit, invest in homeland security, education, familys, shared values (no matter what party we're in - there's his strategy for you in five words).  We're led by a president and party that's taken us down the wrong road.  Wrong direction. Bi-partisan solutions for health care.  Come together in 2006 and especially 2007. 

Pennacchio:  Deeply honored to be here.  Been here before a year ago.  PA is a very special place.  I've done 291 events all over PA.  The reason I embarked on the race early is because I don't like trainwrecks and the reelection of Santorum will be a trainwreck.  He's talking fast - he's laying out the issues right up front where he parts from Casey - special corporate interests, abortion, stem cell .. I'm a Main Street Democrat.  I'm gonna rattle the cage. 

Rules:  I am congenitally unable to listen to rules.  Let's just say that three out of five falls wins.

Question One: Whaddya' gonna do about healh care?

Sandals: Single payer national health care syste, Medicare for all.

Casey: Goal is to make sure every American has access to health care.  Problem is one party rule in Washington (that's funny coming from him).  They're lacking a committment to do something substantial for health care.  I have a good record on this issue.  I've done a lot to expand health care in PA.  We need leadership to have bi-partisan solution.  We can cover more children, cover their parents.   Arrrgh - the video strem is breaking up.  He wants to do "those two things."

Pennacchio: It's not enough to merely pick up our children.  It's not enough to have employers buy in plans.  Health care should be a right, not a privelege.  I endorse John Conyers National Health Care plan.  I'll introduce it the first day I'm in the Senate.  We're not competive globally because of our health care system.  We spend too much on administrative costs.  It's a moral outrage.  It's making us uncompetive and one of the reasons we're becoming a service sector economy.

Sandals: We can do better than just cover our children.  Magic wand won't do it.  We have to talk about utilization.  We're our own worst enemies.  We have to be better consumers of health care because we drive up costs.

Question Two:  Iraq, what's up with that?

Casey: We were mislead.  We need to get information from the administration and Congress isn't pushing for it.  What is the plan?  What is the plan on the ground to get the basic services going?   The administration has a lot of explaining to do.  It has to fulfill it's obligation to the troops. 

Pennacchio:  He's playing the History Professor card: I know this shit.  He called Iraq "Vietnam"  by mistake.  US has bit off a hornet's nest and those wasps are stinging us at every turn.  (lose that metaphor stew for next time).  We're in a civil war.  Rumsfeld said he'd get the troops out in that case, so we should get our troops out.  Read my plan at chuck2006.com.   al Qaeda operating in 60 other countries.  Iraq making us weak. 

Sandals:  The idea of an open-ended military occupation is so wrong.  We need to pursue a geogreen policy.  The fact is we're now over the barrel.  We want to sanction Iran but in a way we're now afraid to because they have all our oil.   This answer really doesn't make much sense as I listen. Maybe someone else got it.

Casey: Glad  he has another thirty.  You can't hold any president responsible unless you're independent.  The other questions raised were very complicated.   On Hamas: starve them until they recognize Israel.  On Iran: all options on the table.

Question Three: Budget is just nuts - cuts social spending - includes tax cuts.  What would you do about it?

Pennacchio:  I support an amendment to balance the budget.   Public and private debt are hurting us.  We are turning into the France of the late 1800s.  (I have no idea what that means.)  We've been here before.  We overcame these problems.  It was progressive taxation that allowed the US to pay off WWI and WWII and become an economic superpower.   Right now we have a gov't that only takes care of the very wealthy.  They want to destroy the capacity of the gov't to do good.  Quoting Norquist.  I'm going to go to D.C. and make sure that doesn't happen.

Sandals:  I agree with what's been said.  Gov't is rewarding the very wealthy.  Destroying the seed corn.  Cutting taxes is reckless.  When someone comes in to fix the problem they get hammered for doing the right thing.  Go back to tax levels of the Clinton years. 

Casey:  This is about two issues - fiscal responsibility and priorities.  Make the comittment to real fiscal responsibility.  Like I did when I unveiled my econ plan.  Can't say you're serious unless ... feed broke up.   Get a corporate welfare commission.  It's also about health care.  Make health care and education a priority.  I've got a proposal to make sure that every four-year old has access to pre-K.

Update: The part I missed was Casey talking about being serious about repealing the BushCo tax cuts to the top 1%.   That's part of being fiscally responsible.

Pennacchio: This is a systematic process.  Talking about the percentage of Americans who control the wealth - way up since Reagan, when 10% of Americans controlled 50% of our wealth.  Today 10% of Americans control 75% of our wealth.  We don't want to become a service sector economy.  We want to become a prosperous economy.

Question Four: Do you accept Roe as settled law?

Sandals: Of course I do.  Must protect rights of women to make that fundamental decision.  Keep abortion rare.   Must face facts: right to Choice must be preserved.  You have a clear choice among the candidates.  I think Mr. Casey stands to destroy the right to choose.  I stand to preserve it.  I got the NOW endorsement.  I will speak loud and often about the woman's right to chose.  Judges must follow established law.  Wouldn't roll back Brown - same thing applies to woman's right to choose.

Casey: I am a pro-life Dem and if you have that position on an important issue like abortion, you can't say that Roe was correctly decided.  You have to be honest about that.  But there isn't enough respect shown in D.C. to disagreement.   Consensus in country is to reduce abortions, reduce unwanted pregnancies.  I support emerg. contraception, fed funding family planning.  Let's look for common ground.   And we have to support women who do decide to have their babies.  Head start, child care, so many programs we have to fund.  Santorum is opposed to all of that.   We can come together on this difficult issue.

Pennacchio: I'm ab. committed to a woman's right to choose. I'm pro-Choice and pro-Life.   We have to go further to give women a real choice. We're talking about world class education.  We're talking about living wage legislation.   We need to give women a real choice to bring their children into the world.  Universal health care.  Fair trade to enable the US to grow economically.   One area I disagree with Alan - I support parental notification with juidicial bypass and medical emergency exception.  NOW threw Sandals a deal and he took it.  Parents have rights when it comes to their children.  It's a difficult issue but we need to grapple with it.

Sandals:  To Pennacchio -You make a lot of wild charges.  Judicial bypass doesn't work.  To Casey:  it's not respect to criminalize the doctors who perform abortions and the women who choose that procedure. 

Pennacchio: Sandals used to be for parental permission.  He flipped flopped over me.

Casey: We don't need people lecturing one another.  We're going to have a lot of time to fight for what we believe in.   (again, very funny coming from the invisible candidate)  We don't need to lecture each other especially on this issue.

Question Five: Do you support Feingold's censure motion?

Casey: No.  We need to make sure that there are hearings and a legal determination of whether the law was broken.  That may happen with good investigations.  It's not going to do any good.  Do you think the president will care?  He won't.   We have to be sure that nothing the Congress does undermines the effort to hunt down and kill terrorists.  Censure won't have any impact on the president of the united states. 

Pennacchio: Yes, abolutely. I support Russ Feingold's censure and we can go further than that.  (applause)  The US Senate's job is to be part of the process of foreign policy making.  You censure the president, it's a rebuke.  Has he broken the law?  Absolutely.  No question about.  He lied us into war into Iraq.  He leaked the identity of a CIA agent.  Congress made  a critical mistake passing the Iraq War resolution.  Let's learn from our history and stop repeating it.  (applause)

Sandals:  The feed fell apart.  I'm switching computers.  This has been a lawless, irresponsible administration.  I agree that if the news that BushCo leaked national security information is true, then that's an impeachable offense.

Pennacchio and Casey pass on the extra thirty.

Question Six: Immigration.  Where do you stand?  House or Senate bill?

Pennacchio: All of Washington is in a tizzy over immigration.  The answer is simple and it's a living wage.  Living wage to elevate all jobs to a level of decency.  I'm the only candidate who supports lifting Americans out of poverty.   The other answer is fair trade legislation.  I reject NAFTA, CAFTA, WTO ... these regional trade agreements are built for corpoations to destroy the environment and destroy worker's right.  Bi-lateral agreements are the way to go.  Get Mexico to pay a living wage.  Most Mexicans don't want to live here.  They want to live in Mexico.  NAFTA does  nothing for Mexico.  (applause)

Sandals: I love immigration.  I wouldn't exist if it weren't for immigration.  His family would have perished in the Holocaust and he'll get back to that.  Opposed to provisions of immigration bill that create an economic underclass - depresses wages, ripple effect.  Having a core of temp workers depress wages for all of us.  We need to replenish our workforce because the baby boomers are retiring.  I'm in favor of the McCain-Kennedy/Specter-Kennedy bill.

Casey: Immigration is a big story.  But what happened at the end of the week?  This do-nothing Congress went home and nothing got passed.  We're talking about making change in Washingto so we can get something done.  Immigration:  We have to be smart about it.  We need to secure the borders.  Let's at least make a comittment to do that.  They didn't even do that.  That's the first thing we have to do.   The second thing is to enforce existing laws.  87% increase from Mexico during this Administration alone.  And that means getting after employers.  So enforce the law and secure the borders before we get to anything else.

Pennacchio: Point of agreement with T. Casey on the businesses who hire illegal immigrants off the books for no money.  I'm talking about the causes.  These folks are talking about the symptoms.  Living wage, world class education.  Let's lift the United States and lift the world. (I really love that idea.)

Question Seven:  America rejected BushCo's attempt to destroy Social Security.   Talk about that.

Sandals: BushCo's plan was a disaster.  What we need to do is raise the wage base, which we do every few years anyway.  We need to address the problem of the baby boomers.  It's going to cause a major economic downturn.  I'm in favor of tax incentives to get people to keep working.  Don't have to pay income tax on wages earned - keeps them working. 

Moderator: stop applauding!

Casey: The BushCo social security scheme was a scheme that would do nothing that would do nothing but take away part of a guaranteed benefit for older Americans and institute a guaranteed benefit for Wall St.  This is a test of our values and a way to reaffirm our priorities.  How do we care for and support the people in the twilight our their lives?  What are we going to do to make their retirements more secure.  We aren't going to privatize.  We are going to sit down in a bi-partisan was and make a comittment to a bi-partisan solution.  One of the ways you do that it by growing the economy.  Create jobs, more payroll revenue.  That's the way you do it in a bi-partisan way.

Pennacchio:  Lift the 90K ceiling.  The second way is to have a living wage - problem solved.  I'm a historian.  I take a longer view.  SocSec is the cornerstone of the New Deal - kids, elderly, orphans, job loss - SocSec is the cornerstone of our safety net.   Go to my site and you will see that 91% of PAians rejected privatization in a poll on Santorum's own site and yet he continued to push for it.

Sandals: There's an important pension reform bill working its way through the Congress and Santorum is on the committee.  That committee passed the version that made pension protection weaker.  I won't do that.

Question Eight: Minimum wage hasn't gone up.  CEO compensation is way out of whack.  What will you do?

Casey: Tax cuts to the top 1%.  Gov't not worrying about middle class and bottom of the middle class.  Raise the minimum wage.  States should do that too.  Shout out to Eddie Rendell who wants to raise it in PA.   We need a senator on the side of working America.  (ask him about Alito)

Pennacchio:  Living wage, my brothers and sisters.  It's easy for me to support that because I'm not taking Wall St. dollars (gesture to Casey) for my campaign.  Let's lift all Americans out of poverty.  Let's make every job a respectable job. Every job.  There's no reason we should settle for less.  Support the living wage.  Support me. 

Sandals:  PA House just passed Min. Wage bill.   I'm in favor of that.  PA St. Senate is saying that they won't vote on this until 2007.  We should pressure them to get to it now.  Now he's talking about the pay raise, I think in the PA General Assembly.  He wants to pass a bill that will take away their pension benefit - I don't know.  Is Casey willing to renounce any pension increase that will result from the pay raise bill if it's declared unconstitutional.  The pay raise was wrong!!

Casey:  I was sued, as you know, about that pay raise.  We filed a brief that said that the pay raise was unconstitutional.  I won't get a pay raise because it applies to the next term and I'll be in Washington.  (laughter and applause)

Closing Remarks:

Pennacchio:  I hope you feel more informed about the candidates.  Who's going down there to represent you.  Who'll go downt here to shake things up?   Dem party is a problem.  Kerry had to ask for permission to filibuster Alito.  You don't ask for permission.  You do the right thing.  My campaign has been about Pennsylvanian through and through.  Gone to every population center in PA.  Heard stories.  Wages they can't live on.  Colleges they can't afford.  Meds they can't afford.  You need a rep in DC who's going to fight the right fight every day.  Not going to be looking over his shoulder at special interests.  Professional pols don't bite the hands that feed them.  That's not me.  I'll fight for you.  Send me to Washington.  (loud applause)

Casey: (Under breath claimed that the crowd was partisan.  Yes, Bob.  It's a Democratic crowd.) Tonight showed that the party is not afraid of debate.   We have to change direction.  Santorum is bad.  I've met people who have inspired me.  Mothers who can't make ends meet.  Nurses and nurses aides who do heroic work.  They deserve a senator who will fight for them.

Sandals: It's been great.  The night is young.  We need several more debates.  I'm trying to get Mr. Casey  to more debates.  (applause)  To Pennacchio:  I wish I lived in the same world you do.  We can't balance the budget and do all the things you want to do.  I wish I lived in your world but we have to be sensible and agressive at the same time.  (BushCo tried that on Kerry)  To Casey:  I still don't know where you stand.   We have to be courageous and stand for something.  I am not embarassed to stand for a woman's right to choose.  That's what we Democrats stand for.  We won't win in November with a candidate who doesn't support that.  Vote for me.

Comments

[DaveW]

Thanks for this. The online feed was dodgier than all get out.

[Joyful Alternative]

Thanks so much for your work. I turned the TV on at 8, which I thought was the starting time for the debate, but instead it was in the midst of the immigration answers, with Sandals talking about the Holocaust. So I missed all the first part, and I'm glad to have been able to catch up here.

Because I'm a DFA rapid responder, I was delighted to see the DFA banner and the North Hills DFA moderator, who did a really professional job in my opinion.

Thanks again!

[albert]

awesome. thanks for this liveblog/recap. i can't wait for the .mp3 to take a listen myself [i'm in NY now].

[Davey D]

Philly for Change isn't support Casey. They voted not to endorse a couple months ago. I think the exact numbers were something like 16 for endorsing Chuck, 15 for no endorsement, 6 votes for Casey and 5 for Sandals. So while Chuck Pennacchio did have the plurality, he fell short of the 75% majority needed for an endorsement.

The one thing I think was extremely unfair about it was that Chuck had not been invited to speak to P4C since June 2005. Sandals, however, was invited to speak there the month before endorsement voting. If Chuck had been invited to speak more recently, I suspect he would've received more endorsement votes. However, on the bright side, Chuck is tentatively scheduled to speak to them again on May 5th, ,so hopefully he can win over some of the undecideds.

[Walt]

I don't see how supporters of candidates who poll at less than 10% name recognition among Democrats can accuse someone *else* of being invisible.

[eRobin]

It's a shot at Casey's refusal to get out there and defend his policies to the voters. He's determined to cruise on name ID and the voters' confusion about his positions. He's a coward.

[Austin]

I just noticed the title is Debate Live Blogging.
Hmm... I support Live Blogging 100%

[Austin]

Walt you would need to understand that Casey has skipped the prievous 4 debates and refused to answer questions for pollsters.

Also that he has done I believe 3 public events whereas Chuck has 291.

[Constance M. Woerner]

I was very impressed with Chuck tonight. I am so proud to be helping this man, I only wish I could do more. He was hands down the winner with us and most of those at Slippery Rock in the audiance. He got the best reactions from crowd, you could tell he had gained their respect in less then 90 minutes. Most came to the same conclusion we have he is just what we and this country need. As for Casey's crude remark it WAS a jealous comment because he knew who whom the audiance preferred/ liked best, Chuck Pennacchio not Bob Casey Jr..

[KathyF]

Thanks for posting this. From what I can tell, it looks like Pennacchio is positioning himself in the middle of this pack. That remark about "geogreen" by Sandals sounds like a starry-eyed liberal thing to say. Also Chuck's position on parental notification shows he's willing to remain independent of NARAL.

Oh, and historians rock.

[eRobin]

I think that Sandals is staking out the middle ground. He really wanted that NOW endorsement though so he moved from parental consent to no parents involved at all. His snide and desperate remark in the closing comments about wishing he lived in Chuck's world where we can do everything he wants and still have a living wage was his claim to the middle.

None of the candidates pushes an energy policy. I wish they would. It would be a winner. Energy and living wage mmmmmmm ....

[DavidByron]

In my world I occupy the middle ground. Scary thought, huh?

[chris]

I don't get why Chuck is against NAFTA/CAFTA/etc...it makes no sense to want to create a livable wage here, wall ourselves in, and then not facilitate any of the push factors of immigration. These trade agreements help everyone out, we just must re-educate workers who get their jobs moved.

I support Casey.

[Austin]

yes I see Chuck to the left but I also know that the majority of even conservative democrats in the T like the idea of universal health care and a living wage and no PAC money.

Also I'm still the only one here who has taken a position on Live Blogging. You guys need to take a stance and stop ducking the real issues here

[Austin]

Chris firstly Casey opposes NAFTA/CAFTA also. These regional trade relations are not fair to the working classes in either country and allow large corporations to move production to Mexico where they can pay workers less than a dollar an hour in extremely poor working condidtions. If we had fair trade like Chuck pushes we could improve working condidtions with the other country or force manufactors to put Americans to work.

A living wage is something we have had in the past and it would greatly stimulate our economy.

Why do you support Casey?

[Davey D]

I think Chris's post may have been sarcastic. I can't imagine any Democrat is actually insane enough to think we should "re-educate our workers" after they lose their jobs to foreign countries with no living wage.

[chris]

It wasn't sarcastic, it's realistic

[chris]

austin - You are right that they are all against NAFTA, doesn't make them right...but I think Casey has the most realistic approach to a lot of issues, like healthcare, abortion, education, etc. More moderate positions are going to have an easier time passing.

[eRobin]

Anyone who supports the kind of DLC moderation that Casey embodies should read this post at MyDD.

[Bill P.]

As someone who was at the debate here's my reactions.

Chuck: Seemed angry at the beginning, but after the first couple questions seemed more like passion than anger. He impressed me with his message especially economy and Iraq. Also pleased how he handled the abortion question rather than sniding at Casey like Sandals. He also pointed out his principles on it. Overall I came out of the debate with a better feeling on Chuck than I had coming in and may vote for him.

Casey: Bob Casey came off as a nice, likeable guy and that may work against Rick Santorum, who is just a prick. But it was very frustrating when at times Casey danced around issues. I came into the debate strongly leaning towards Casey left only slightly leaning towards Casey, but that's as much about how well Chuck Pennacchio did rather than Casey doing poorly.

Sandals:
Alan Sandals came off impressively in the beginning, but some of his attacks on Casey and Chuck seemed petty.

If I had to classify each canidate I'd say Sandals is a Kerry Democrat, Chuck a progessive populist, and Casey more the moderat populist.